The Brick & Mortar Whisperer

To extend what we think we already know, in our own home grounds. And I think it's good to travel, to see what kind of things have been done. And you know how when we were in school, we would have all these magazines - back then it was physical magazines - of all these works done. And a lot of them were from MVRDV and you will see them, read about them, and I wanted to experience them myself. I wanted to see them in person. When I visited the Netherlands, one of the projects I saw was WoZoCo, it is this cantilever building. It's a very exaggerated cantilever and I went there and I saw and I was quite taken aback by it, like the scale and all. It's always good to experience it in person, right? Because I feel that works of architecture should be experienced in person.

I think you'll realise that back in year two, I actually did precedent studies on Mies van der Rohe, in particular the Barcelona Pavilion. Till today, I find that the building is amazing. You need to look from the lens of the context. It was built 90 years or 100 years ago, but when you look at the world today, it is still so timeless and beautiful. And if you read how he came up, the idea is very simple. Basically, he just questioned, “Can I create a room with three walls?” Traditionally, rooms are created and bounded by four walls with small fenestrations. And so when I realised that actually a design idea can actually be coined in such simple terms, and the design can still look so good. And the spatial experience is different, you know? That's what I took back from some of my travels.

Highs was when we won design competitions, because at the start of my professional practice, a lot of times we young graduates will be tasked to work on design competitions with design directors. And sometimes we win. Sometimes we don't. But in general, when we win, the morale is high. Because we put in so much effort, many many hours were spent and sometimes even staying overnight in the office. But it came to a point when it became very tiring, and no longer sustainable. So, I would say that's a high point.

Yeah, correct. Because it's high, because you won but after that, it really does take a toll on you. And a lot of us will be like, “Oh we don't want to do these competitions anymore. Can we go to another team, to maybe run projects and stuff like that”.

Yes, you are big on that, right?

Through competitions, yes, everyone fights. And then they will shortlist the best five and this best five usually will be paid, not a lot but a nominal fee, but better than nothing, right? To me, I can accept that. You select the best five and you pay them for it. However, I'm very suspicious also; are you calling this competition just to gather free ideas? If so, then I'm against that. I don't do free work in my office. Around four years ago, I decided on that. Because I think it kills the morale of my staff as well. And I am also tired, really, to do free work and do free pitching. To be honest, if you want to do really good design work, you need to spend a lot of time. And if I do these free pitches that I I'm not even proud of, then I question, what's the point?

I did take part in competitions, because like what you just said, young firms have no avenues to get big projects. Is it true that we can do big projects? I think it's not true. We can. Yeah, I think we can. It's just that the only way out of this is to join competitions. And hopefully, you win.

I think on this front, maybe the government should do something about it. Our government has so many projects, right? Why don't they just farm out some projects for young architects? If you feel that the scope is too big, a few of us can collaborate, why not?

I think there's a complete drastic difference in what we were doing in school and in practice. The first year of work, I really wanted to throw in the towel, because I didn't expect the professional practice to be this demanding. Yet, I was in a dilemma because I really, truly like to do design work. At the back of my mind, I'll be thinking, “Okay, if I don't do design work. I also don't know what other talents I have”. So, exiting the profession was going to be a big headache for me as well, but the job itself was extremely challenging; the pace that we had to work at, and the intensity of endless design revisions, options after options really just didn't feel sustainable for me. Thankfully, I had a very good mentor at work, who was also one of the directors in MKPL, Mr. Chew Chee Kong.

Yes, great so you know him! So, I think you can understand. Actually a lot of us from NUS who joined MKPL that year were mentored by him. He is very good. He is such a patient mentor, and very willing to teach. He's exceptionally strong in construction detailing, contract and authority matters, which are things that we generally don't touch on in school. When I shared with him, "I can't do this anymore, I think I want to quit." He said, “How about this - you quit only after you complete your first project.”

Then I was in charge of doing this 14 units of strata bungalow project in Crescent Road. I don't know how or why I managed to stay for five years and managed to complete that job. That project was like my baby, I worked on the project right from start all the way till the end until it got TOP. So to call it quits in between, I just couldn’t let go of this baby. I just wanted to see its completion. True enough, when I completed that first built project, I tasted that bitter sweet success. Something that I cannot really describe, but you know, whatever you draw on a piece of paper really gets materialised. That kind of satisfaction is great. After that, I left. But shortly after, they entered this project for competition at the World Architecture Festival and it got shortlisted.

Yes, yes. I got my licence!

I would say a complete no to this, because we would really just be killing more young architects. By doing that - I'll be a bit more sensitive on this topic because I've only worked in MKPL architects - but so I'll share what I know from those five years. Whoever said that has no inkling about how lowly architectural graduates are getting paid. And the long hours we worked. I mean, that is crazy, right? Can you imagine, whatever we are getting is already not great. And you're going to lower it even further, who's going to work for you? And if I got my research right, the current pay is probably the same as what I was getting back in 2008, maybe a couple $100 more, but the cost of living has been increasing. And if you truly want a real insight, I can tell you that at the earlier stage of our careers, a lot of us will be thrown into doing design competitions for the firm. Because it's just a natural path, as we could do nice presentation drawings, schematic diagrams, alongside with the design director, and I've witnessed how many of these competitions have been won. And then they translated into real projects, and that became bread and butter for the firm. So seriously, to say that we contribute little at the start is really not true. But of course, gradually, because we want to take our licence, the firm will also slowly give us local projects, where we can then be able to fulfil our exam requirements, and from there, pick up other critical skill sets, like understanding building codes, contract matters, etc. And I think the firm really should have that kind of patience to impart those skills.

Okay, my heart really goes out to them for real. I'm not saying this just because I want to say it, I am saying it because it is really very tough. And I can say that because I was once there. And I can understand why this happens because we compete with people who are doing free work all the time. You know, we often have to service clients who want design work to be done within a short span of time, doing multiple options. This whole equation is just wrong. So, if we don't change this and designers don't band together to stop doing free work and stop undercutting fees in order to win work, we will just be creating a culture of industry cannibalism. Look at it this way, low fee is what definitely trickles down and mostly it translates to many things like low remuneration for staff and having to load them with multiple projects at once. Because you're still running a business after all, right? So, I actually hope that architects, designers, we all can band together to try and change the situation.

Okay. I mean, it's not that I'm putting up a front in front of my staff. But when they go with me to meet with potential clients, I always say to the client, “I am sorry, but we do not do any work, any form of design work upfront before any formal engagement.” And my staff would hear me say this to the clients. And I think it helps with morale because I put myself in their shoes. Who wants to be in office doing free work after free work?

I think most importantly, is to pursue your own personal interests, and whatever natural aptitudes you feel that you might have. Because if you love what you do, even in those trying moments, say, for example, you have to service a nasty client, even if the product was heavily criticised, even if people do not like your project, and you didn't win any awards for it; at the end of the day, if you are exploring meaningful issues that you truly care about, then you have that kind of energy and momentum to carry on.

I started my own practice, because I want to do more experimentative work at a smaller scale. Because as with most artists, I think we all yearn for that creative freedom, which I find it hard to get when I was doing large scale condominium projects. And the truth is, I don't even know who I'm designing for… I mean, I don't even know the people living in the unit, the client and all that. I felt like that was missing, so when the opportunity presented itself, I just couldn't say no.

So the opportunity came sometime, early 2016. And it’s the project I called the “Living Grid House”, it is actually an A&A work. The client wanted to do some A&A work and spruce up the interior, because it was old. Back then in 2016, L Architects wasn't Incorporated yet. And so some time in March 2016, I decided that if I wanted to do this project - so it was more like circumstantial - then I would have to set up a company to do this project. So, that was how we started.

For “A Series of Barns”, we were only operating as a design consultant. I left MKPL in 2014. Between 2014 to 2016 I was actually helping my uncle. And so the project “A Series of Barns” was actually initiated by him, it's actually in Malaysia. He bought this piece of land and he wanted to do some feasibility study for residential. In the end, he also wanted to build an office there to kickstart this project, and I found these abandoned buildings on the site. They are two-storey, and they are already sitting in a very nice and quaint site context, so I didn't really want to make it too commercial. That was how I created “A Series of Barns”.

No, it's adaptive reuse, I made use of the abandoned structures. I think they were meant to be shophouses, I didn't really dig further. But I think someone was building something there, and maybe subsequently, the site was then sold to my uncle. So, it just came with those half-built structures. Actually, my uncle was very nice, he said “If you don't want to use these structures, you can just remove them and start anew.” but I said, No, I want to keep those structures and I want to turn them into something.

Yes. So I am secretly attributing it to my dad's family who has influenced me quite a bit.

So the best thing is I get a lot of creative freedom now. And I'm not just talking about design aspects. But I can be a bit more innovative in terms of my working routines, and also being creative with staff benefits. I shared it with a few industry friends and I get mixed reviews for it. I think the most difficult part is to handle a difficult client on my own. In the past, I had supervisors and directors, superiors, so let's say if the client wants to remove something in this design, or the client is not happy with something, I'd be like, “Man Kok (from MKPL Architects), the client said this, can you speak to the client about it?” But now, I have to attend to all these myself. So, in short, opening my own firm is definitely a roller coaster ride. And I think on the best days, it feels like the greatest thing that I have ever done for myself; but on the worst, it gives me sleepless nights. I don't know if you have experienced that before? But it's really true. And I'm a Christian, so this journey has seen me going down on my knees praying many times in church. Yeah, I just want to say this.

Thank you.

Okay, so let's start with the design process. To be honest, I don't pick up the pencil immediately after site visits and start sketching away in my office. The first step really is to craft an interesting brief. I actually spend a lot of my time at the beginning thinking about project strategies, and to re-interpret and re-imagine the brief in different ways. But of course still bearing in mind the current context variants. And why I say that is because certain context brings about certain thinking during that moment or era. In short, I try to tease out the actual question that I want to address in each project. But before that, I actually would run through in my mind, “What have other designers done to solve this problem? And why did they do it in that manner?” All these questions will run through my head. And so to me, I've always felt that determining the brief is the most creative moment in my whole design process. Because we will always have the client’s brief, and all the things that we need to address, but I think that the design can become very superficial if we simply just address all the immediate needs and the pragmatic things. I'm a firm believer of having that layer of poetry over a very utilitarian programme. I think that sense of wonder and delight does add an artistic dimension to a piece of work. And that usually is what connects stronger with people's emotions. And to me, that is architecture.

So I told you about my experience at the Barcelona Pavilion, which I won't go into here. I like works that have a strong emotional connection, I don't really have a particular architect that I follow very closely. But I prefer works that when I look at them, and I'm like, “Wow, this feels different!” Some projects you look at, and you're like, “Wow, this is a non-referential work.” As opposed to when you see a work and you feel, “I've seen this before.” Some ideas just keep getting repeated in different ways. So in short, I don't really follow anyone closely.

Oh, some of them… for example, I really love Peter Zumthor's work. But I have not had the chance to visit. I always see them in books and magazines, and I read a lot about him. I really want to visit Therme Vals in Switzerland one day. I hope I get to do that. So that's what I can share for now.

Yeah, apparently you can stay there too. I think there's like a hotel and stuff like that.

Okay. I am a person who likes the purity of design ideas. So perhaps that's why you picked up that there's a central idea, because I find that when I put in too many ideas into a project, it often dilutes the scheme. So, let's talk about the “Living Grid House”, which was our first A&A project. You know what Sentosa Cove is like, right? All these very ostentatious houses that are fighting for attention, attention-seeking pieces of work. And so for the “Living Grid House”, I wanted to do the reverse. I just wanted to use very simple aluminium hollow sections to do up a facade. And of course, to also incorporate all these greenery within the grids. Actually, I was trying to hide the house behind the greenery and not make it stand out so much. You know, like doing the reverse. Apparently, in doing that, it actually created more interest when people walked past. If you look at how the master plan of Sentosa Cove is done, most houses do not have a wide frontage. Each house would either be fronting the man-made river, or would be facing the sea view. But actually, a big part of the house does not have views. So I wanted to create views for rooms which are facing other houses. That was the starting point. As for “House of Trees”, it is our first new erection work. When I first went down to the site, I was overwhelmed, because immediately in front of the house is a six-lane carriage traffic - so there is much noise and traffic, you get double decker buses, lorries passing by and all that. It's not like my client picked this site, but because this piece of land was actually gifted by their parents. They handed down this house to the brothers to redevelop into a pair of semi-detached houses. But you know the typical qualities of what we want for our house - we want it to be livable, we want tranquility, and these qualities will never change irregardless of where you build this house. So, I formulated a question for myself, “Can I create an interior space where I feel like it's more livable, more tranquil, despite the bad context?” So, I created this frontal frame, where we will house trees. For me, I am quite a nature loving person. And I've always felt that the structure of trees is really beautiful. I don't want to just put potted plants and all that, I wanted that kind of intervention of putting real trees on the facade. When you move into the interior space… which I wish I could bring you…

Actually, we were going to have Archi-tours in September for “House of Trees”, in conjunction with Archifest. When you move into the interior space, you will feel that all of a sudden you've forgotten about the context of the house. I think these emotional aspects are what I like to search for in each of my projects.

I am gonna be very honest. I really didn't start the project from a sustainability angle. But of course, it's always at the back of my mind when I do projects. To me all these Green Mark and its point system, which I'm not subjected to because I'm doing landed house, but I do use it as a point of discussion. I feel that the Green Mark point system cannot fully measure or quantify the emotional aspect and delightfulness of a design. Looking at “House of Trees”, I do know that perhaps a lot of designers would probably just screen up the whole facade, and maybe channel whatever views internally via a courtyard. This has been done many times for context like this. These are row houses, so you can see the things that neighbouring houses have done. To me, if I did that, I find that the spaces inside would be very depressing. Again, I want to reiterate, my point is that the emotional aspects of a design - or in particular in this house - cannot be created if I simply use Green Mark as my checklist. However, because of these three years of pandemic, because we couldn't go out, people actually wanted to go out even more to engage with nature. There's somehow a renewed interest in the natural world again. And so maybe very timely, this house was built during COVID, and then handed over during COVID. And because we can't travel, and there were lockdowns, my client would have to spend quite a lot of time inside the house itself. And so can you imagine if I just screened up everything, and they had no views, or just view to a six-lane traffic, I think it will make the living conditions not sustainable.

Thank you. Thank you.

“Brick & Mortar” is our first commercial project. I mean, by now, you know, my background, right? I was doing mostly residential projects in MKPL Architects. And when I started my own practice, I was once again landed houses, and apartment interiors. It was a very comfortable programme for me, perhaps even too comfortable. It usually is like that too when your portfolio shows that you seem to be an expert at a particular genre, it's hard for you to jump to another genre. So, when someone finally gave me the opportunity to do a commercial interior, I was so excited. However, I started having anxieties as well, because I don't know how to start on a commercial project. So I did a few field studies by visiting some kitchen appliances showroom and shops, and navigated my own design direction. In fact, some of these shops that I visited have very poor retail experiences. And I felt like they carry off a very ubiquitous presence, seems like… typical kitchen appliances shop, with hardly any experience at all, but I don't agree with that. So then, all of a sudden I got inspired by the term 'brick and mortar' which actually means the physical presence of a business. And actually coupled with my own personal curiosity with the cross section of things. I don't know if you have seen it, but the cross section of fruits and vegetables, they usually have so much variations, textures and details, to give you a few examples, if you've seen the cross section of a fig, or the cross section of an artichoke, or strawberry, they are so intricate. I would even say, perhaps more interesting than what you see on the external. So, I was very curious to see what's inside a hollow brick. I actually took a brick back to my office from some random site. I told the workers, can you give me this brick? And I started looking at it from many angles. So you know, all these hollow bricks actually have holes on their sides... And so actually, the first concept that we pitched for “A brick and Mortar Shop” was to have the bricks being laid to reveal that side. And so we can reveal the exposed holes. But one of the product managers said, “Oh, this is going to be a maintenance nightmare. Can you imagine dust and dirt being trapped within these cavities?”

I took it well, and so I said, “Okay, never mind, I'm gonna think of another way on how I can detail this brick wall.” Material wise, there are only three elements if you've seen the project. There's the cement brick, unadorned plywood, and off-cut stones. Each of them have varying levels of intricacies and narrative. So there, brick and mortar explained. I'm using unadorned plywood, not just for the sake of using it, because if you understand the mechanics of how these kitchen appliance showrooms work, you will know that actually they do have some problems that you have to resolve for them. Otherwise, over the years, they have a lot of appliances that keep coming in and it needs to be updated. So, they will need to change the counters. Once they change the counters, if that particular laminate or veneer that you specified before is discontinued, then they're just going to anyhow use something else to replace it. And that's why over the years, you would see that, “Hey, how come the design looks like a patchwork?” So to prevent that from happening, I had to use something that I know would have longevity.

Since I can't control the business aspect of how the shop works, if they have to change the carcass, they have to change, but I want to ensure that perhaps for the next 5 to 10 years, the client would still be able to manage the materials. So that's the reason why we use plywood. Off-cut stones were used because I'm essentially doing residential projects and I've seen how so much waste is being created. I feel it's quite sad, people want to use natural materials, but they don't want to accept natural blemishes or uneven tonalities. This is really the characteristics of natural materials. Anyway. I decided to just salvage all these and then lay it on the floor to create a crazy paving pattern. I feel the equation really worked well on all fronts, because the supplier is really happy that they have somewhere to offload this. Traditionally, they will collect all these wasted off-cuts and throw them into the landfill. In Singapore, if you throw something in the landfill, you will have to pay the government money, you cannot just throw for free. So now they have somewhere to throw, and perhaps make a small profit out of it. And for us as designers, the floor is beautiful. I love it. I don't think it's even a design compromise, all of a sudden all these natural blemishes and uneven tonalities no longer matter in that whole design scheme. For the client, they are also happy, right? Because clients are always cost conscious. The synergy and the equation works really beautifully here. Maybe that's also why this piece of work has appealed to many. I'm not sure, but that's what I'm guessing.

Honestly, they didn't question this aspect. We did renderings of it and they've seen the visuals. They also understood what we're gearing up for. I genuinely just wanted to create a different retail experience. And I realised that if I wanted to do that, I had to try something new. And I'm very glad the client is with me on this, so we just took that step together.

This is very good question. I think no, because I usually put up a challenge for myself for each project that I do. And for this one, the challenge that I put up for myself was, I just wanted to use the most ubiquitous and commonplace material. And so there are different types of bricks, right? There is cement bricks, and there's also red bricks. I was just thinking to myself, 'No, I opted for cement brick and not red brick, because cement brick is twenty cents cheaper than red brick.

Yeah, I was really bent on using the cheapest of the cheapest. Cement brick is everywhere, not just in Singapore, but all over the world and easily available. It is not something special, but I felt like I could create a unique piece of work out of it, using an ordinary material in a way that nobody else has done before. And so when I look back, if let's say you have given me more budget, double, triple, I would still want to put up this challenge for myself.

Yes, we do get more visibility now. Was that how you know us?

Yeah, and that actually does translate to us getting more inquiries. But moving forward, I actually do want to put this award aside and just continue our path to search for more non-transferable ideas. I do feel that these accolades can get to you, and perhaps make you feel more special than you think you really are. It's just a self check, I don't want to fall into those traps. But of course, there is really no way I can accurately articulate how happy I am to have received this recognition in my 30s. Yeah, because even when you are in your 40s right, people still say you are a young architect.

Shortly after the awards, I flew to Melbourne, and Mr. Mok Wei Wei was very kind to have linked me up with Ms. Kerstin Thompson. Both of them were the jurors for this year's SIA awards. When I met her in person, she shared with me the backend discussions. One of the things she brought up has stuck with me. So, we were actually given only a stipulated eight minutes to do the presentation if your project got shortlisted. She told me that there were actually a few architects who struggled to explain their designs within eight minutes. She told me, “If the design direction had good clarity, it definitely can be communicated within those eight minutes. And if it can't, then it's quite telling.” So, when I went back, and pondered about what she said, I think what she said made sense. So maybe it's also something that I should constantly check in with myself that whatever design direction I'm proposing, I must be able to relate it within that short amount of time.

I would like to share something to encourage young archi bosses - as there are a few people in their 30s who are setting up their own companies - it is to not wait for the perfect project to do good work. The truth is, it is unlikely you will get a museum or art gallery commission at the start of your practice. That's the cold hard truth. Not sure if anyone even noticed, but of the two projects that won us awards, one didn't have the best site and one didn’t have the best programme. For “House of Trees”, I do believe that people might actually have turned down the job thinking that a better site will come along. The other that won the “Design of the Year” had a perfunctory programme and brief, that is “A Brick & Mortar Shop”. To put it plainly, it really is just a kitchen appliances showroom, not a very exciting programme, but I say take it and seize the opportunity to still attempt to do good work and push for some meaningful boundaries.

I do have those kinds of roadblocks, like what you have described. It is quite sad. So, I would then take this idea and just keep it somewhere hoping that I can use it at an appropriate time and situation again.

Peter Zumthor's "Atmospheres".

A Beautiful Mind.

I really don't have one.

This is a tough one. I don't have!

Oh, I like Hereu, it's actually a Spanish brand. It's my recent obsession.

Ah, yes. I think we are very into social media. Our era is very into social media, very into all these pretty pictures and all. I actually sometimes get very sucked into this whole Instagram thing myself. I can look at the image and think, “Wow, so nice! Can be an interior..” And I have to try very hard to draw myself back. Because sometimes they are just seductive but they have no real meaning in them.

Relationships.

Oh, this caught me by surprise, I don't have one.

We are in the era where digitalisation is coming on board quite strong, and people want to do prefabrication and all that, we are in an era of fast consumption. And I find that a lot of things - not just architecture - have lost the personal touch. I hope that we can bring them back. Yes, I understand that we want to be a progressive society, we want to find efficient ways to build and design things. But we mustn't forget the emotional aspect of human beings, which is so important. To me, I really don't believe in a world like that. Because every one of us is so unique. We have different experiences, and we have different backgrounds and to say that everyone would stay in a standard kind of house, I just don't believe in a world like that.

Thank you, thank you.