Pure and Simple Everytime

Jamie Maybe I can start with why we named the press 'Temporary Press' because that's the first thing that we started. We started it in 2018, one year after the studio. We bought a Risograph machine and we just wanted to make some books on our own to save on printing costs. And so, we didn't know how long we can run this. We thought this would be a temporary press, and we'll see how it goes.

Gideon We've been asked that before and we don't really have a reason in the beginning. I like the sound of it – how it is not very serious. It describes something that is perhaps fleeting in nature, and so if this disappear, it is okay. We find comfort in this name that does not promise much.

Thinking further, of course there's this temporal nature of things that we kind of have to accept in our practice. Precarity is also something we often think about or experience. We've come to realise that this may not be something inherently good or bad. Like the conditions that we were talking about that shape our practice and output, this can also be a productive or meaningful way for us to work.

When we're making visuals for social media, the visuals can be designed in a very makeshift and efficient manner. There is no need for much graphics or visual layers. We save time in quite practical ways.

Gideon We don't do it consciously. Of course, in terms of definitions, or for the sake of clarity, gideon-jamie is the studio that encompasses all the activities that we do. As part of it, Temporary Press publishes content in the form of books, collaborates with artists/writers and publishes their work, or sometimes our own work. Temporary Unit is the studio space, there is a makeshift bookstore (and it holds exhibitions or events) for programmes. In terms of, how we spend time on different aspects of the work, there isn't much of a distinction. We simply work on whatever needs to be done at any point of time.

Gideon Maybe this is not the best way to do it. But yes, it's like that. When we have a book to make, we put in money to make that book. After that, maybe there's a pause and if we have something else to do, then we spend on that.

Gideon No. In fact, gideon-jamie is precisely what we want to do, and everything else falls under what we want to do (publishing, exhibitions, etc.). Of course, the studio takes in commissioned work, and we get paid for that but even then, it's not really money-making. In fact, recently, the activities of Temporary Press has helped quite a lot in terms of sales and distribution of books to different places beyond Singapore. That, sometimes, on the other hand, helps support the studio. That's the intention. We don't want any of our studio activities to be a side hustle. We want everything to be part of the primary practice.

Jamie I think this is also because we print it on our own, and that brings the cost really down.

Gideon At the moment, we're really still trying to make things work. Sometimes for Temporary Press, there are collaborators/authors who also have funds to put into the book (for production). That helps us to increase, let's say, the print run and we can offset print them. We really hope to create a cycle where things feed into each other, not just in terms of content and interests, but also (for things to financially) sustain each other. For example, the informal sessions that we organise (in the space)… they're free, but maybe the bookstore is the one that would help sustain.

Gideon We started publishing because we wanted to make books, we are not only concerned about how books look — the construction or design — but also in their content. Publishing brings about another aspect of the practice, which includes editing, writing or even simply deciding what to publish and what not to. That forms a core part of our practice as designers who think about what we do and its role in society.

There is a loose connection across all the things that we published. Most of them I think, if not all, touch on (or question) definitions of design. To give examples... and if we start with the first few publications we did... There was one with Sheere Ng who writes across food, culture and histories. Although she was the one who approached us, we found the contents really interesting, there were many aspects that are very much related to design. For example, she collected and looked at 'tze-char’ stall menus, at teaching illustrations in Home Economics textbooks from the past, at ‘redesigned’ cooking utensils that hawker stall owners improvised or adapted to their specific needs. I'm sure these things may appear as objects of interest in design discourse elsewhere, but they are likely not seen as (points of interest worth looking at in design here given) the dominant definition of what design is in Singapore if we consider the general narratives in Singapore (that drives the profession here).

There was another one with Xavier Antin, an artist whose work deals a lot more with graphic design (than we may think). He studied graphic design, and his work responds to the visual or graphic tools of production we have today, or maybe do so by resisting conventional ways of using machines like the desktop printer or the inkjet printer, which are tools that somehow have a role in conditioning how we produce or even what we produce. One of his works involves hacking a large format inkjet printer and changing the way it prints. That in itself relates to graphic design production and overlaps with our interests. And so we approached the publication from that angle (which is further discussed in a conversation within the book).

And if I were to give another example...

Gideon That was done with Justin Zhuang who runs Singapore Graphic Archives. He collects (and archives) local graphic design history in different forms. For me at least, because of my age, I am unfamiliar with many of these visual histories. When I look at his archive, and I look again at graphic design now in Singapore, there's a huge difference. I don't know what happened in between (those two periods). That for me is enough a reason to put them out as an object for circulation, to get ourselves to look at materials or graphic design that are from the past, and see what happens from there.

Overall, we were not conscious of drawing these connections across all the titles. But maybe because these works stem strongly from our interests, and the making of the books often involves us speaking to the authors or the artists (and having our voices in them), we can’t help but bring in our perspective or a certain angle (either through words or design), and converse with them.

Jamie Yes, that's what we hope for. Or maybe that's just our interest. That's why things naturally gravitate towards a certain direction.

Gideon But of course, not everything we do might fall under our interest and sometimes we have to just take steps back, and hear more from someone else…

Jamie I would think so. Recently, I realised that a lot of people who studied graphic design for their Diploma… there's some kind of 'baggage’ that they carry.

Gideon I mean, we have our own ‘baggage’ too.

Jamie Yeah. But... I lost my train of thought.

Gideon It was something very apparent when I started working as a graphic designer in a commercial studio. I realised that it was really hard for me to quickly generate visual ideas (based on styles). In product design, at least from what we were exposed to...

Jamie More conceptual, is it?

Gideon Kind of, things follow a process. There needs to be a reason behind how an object turns out, whether it is based on the technology or its function. This is a very conventional way of approaching design I would say. So, to look at and generate 2D visuals in a variety of styles was something really unfamiliar for me. In fact, it was uncomfortable. I wasn't good at it. I wasn't as versatile, or dexterous in graphic design. Maybe that was a limitation. But thinking back, studying product design changed the way we look at things.

One clear example of this is how we see books as reading appliances. They are objects of use. This is why we sometimes get a little bit agitated when discussing about the grain direction of paper in books (many here do not care), because that affects how the object feels, how we use it, or even how the object changes according to humidity, and so on. In general, that kind of education or background has more impact on how we approach design rather than looking at things purely in terms of two dimensions or three dimensions.

Gideon I think Jamie doesn't like books, is it?

Jamie I used to read books...

Gideon What do you feel about books? I'm always buying books and...

Jamie I'm always stopping him from buying books… Why books?

I think the most obvious answer will be: Oh, they're a vehicle for content and you can broaden people's minds through that. That's a really typical answer.

Gideon I remember something you said in a previous interview. You mentioned that when we were product designers, it's quite hard, or at least for us, to have an independent practice. To design and actually manufacture products involve much costs, and a lot more capital...

Jamie a lot more... investment.

Gideon It definitely has to involve external parties, and we’d have to provide design purely as a service rather than for it to become an independent practice. This relates to why we bought the Riso, because we can have control over production and its costs. After investing the first amount of money to purchase the machine, everything else is quite manageable, like materials or labour. We can do it at our own pace, we don't have to run the machine all the time. We can produce, in a sense, ‘products’ that way and it works out for pursuing an independent practice.

Gideon Yeah

Jamie I guess, because it also encompasses our skill sets in graphic design, book design, and product design…. Then maybe the last will be the handcrafted part (that involves manual work), where sometimes we have to make parts of the books ourselves... the ability to prototype things. It all falls nicely into this book medium.

Gideon Just in case listeners are wondering, the DIY projects we do are very makeshift and simple. Like a table made out of flat pieces of wood, cable-tied together (in different ways to form different sizes). It's not the most comfortable table, but it works really well for, let's say when we just shift into new places. This will be the first thing we set up, the first object we use. It's large enough to put a lot of things or use as a temporary work desk. It's not the kind of DIY work that is quite polished.

For us. it's again about making things work for ourselves without buying, let's say, a large table. We actually just build them with very simple, handheld tools. We don't need a workshop, we can do it within the space. Drilling holes, buying bolts and nuts, and fixing things together in extremely convenient ways.

Jamie I think sometimes the problem is… when we look at a certain object, we’re like: ok we should buy it, and then we quickly realise, why not just put three pieces of wood together and will work (and achieve the same function)?. Then we’re like: ok let’s just not spend this $25 on this thing and…

Gideon But no, most of them, its few hundreds for…

Jamie Ah ok, just drill it together you know…

Jamie I think I’m more gung.. Not gungho… like put your head…

Gideon Ya, she jumps into making things straightaway.

Jamie Yea, and then he’ll be like: No, it doesn't work this way! And that’s when we argue. Oh it’s structurally not strong, you know…

Gideon Yea, whether the structures we’re building will wobble… but Jamie has a lot of patience to fix things properly. For example, the Riso machine is something that we have quite a lot of problems with because it’s second… Eh no, I don’t know how many. It’s secondhand, but it went through many people. and so we had issues with it. We called for help from the headquarters, but there wasn’t really much they could do and Jamie was the one who fixed it. That is something that I cannot do and don’t have the patience for.

Jamie Ideally, we should work as one. But if you really want to be specific, most of the graphic design is done by Gideon because he was trained in that when he went to university. And I mean, how many people can work on a single file right?

Gideon Ya, and sometimes doing it together makes it slower and more complicated…

Jamie So sometimes as the project progresses, we just each take up the roles that need to be filled.

Gideon Yea, the roles fall into place.

Jamie Sometimes we create group chats so that we can both can input whatever whenever. Usually I will take on the artwork preparation, that means preparing files for production. I guess it is also boils down to my studies in industrial design, or maybe it’s just this interest in production, in making things, or making things work…

Gideon I would say that the stage where we conceptualise things is often worked out closely together. Most of the time an idea can't surface without us talking about the work. This has been the case since the first project we worked on. The idea comes when we talk to one another about the approach or contents and look at it together.

Jamie Maybe it’s just having someone to bounce ideas off each other.

Gideon Whenever we want to.

Gideon Yea, it’s also because it’s part of our interest. That’s why it’s important to keep this work independent. It shouldn’t become purely a business. If it is, it wouldn’t be fun anymore. If this work is part of our daily life and general interest, then we need to protect it (and the autonomy it has). That also means we rest whenever we need to.

Jamie It’s really not like saying: Ok I’m going to work now. I don’t think that works for us.

Gideon Most of the ideas happen during off-work time, when we’re not intentionally working, like what we do when printing, laying out pages, typesetting…

Jamie We occasionally have help to deal with production, maybe more for Temporary Press’ activities.

Gideon Yea, we have assistants here and there. Very low commitment. Whenever they are free, they will help. We’ve talked about hiring. Ideally we don’t want to hire someone as part of the studio. We would want to collaborate with someone who wants to start an independent practice and who share similar interests, that’s important. And then, collaborate on things, sharing projects if we can. They help us, but with the intention of starting their own practice eventually. That’s where we would like to head towards. I don’t know how long it will take but…

Gideon Yes, I’m not sure whether it’s feasible. Maybe some would say it’s not practical, but I’m not sure until I try it.

Gideon Maybe this has been done, in different ways…

Jamie …and in other outfits that we know.

Gideon Of course, that can also happen if someone just works purely as an employee in a company.

Gideon Most of these projects are with friends we already know, or do works we are interested in. Whenever such friends or people look for us to work on things, we’re excited.

Jamie Even if the initial brief didn’t sound as exciting, we’ll get excited about the ideas that are possible.

Gideon Ya, you’re right. There was a project we worked on where we were asked us to design a conventional booklet, a straightforward project brief. Just a booklet, over 30 pages. Of course, the contents are interesting, but it’s not particularly exciting as a design brief. But once we found the idea that works for that context it became really exciting.

Jamie I don’t think we intentionally make it exciting, but… it just…

Jamie It’s like: Wow, this idea is quite cool uh. Like, when you do it…

Gideon It’s also dependent on the person we’re working with. They give room for ideas to happen and they themselves are excited about this unusual or unexpected… (not all the time, but we often try to find unexpected solutions or ideas) and they become as interested and excited as us about it. That helps and is important for us.

Jamie I think increasingly it gets blurrier, or we find that there’s no…

Gideon …need.

Jamie …need to differentiate. We like parts of the artistic mind, and we also like parts of the design practice.

Gideon Instead of a fine line, I guess it’s a grey area that we kind of enjoy being in. But of course I don’t identify myself or ourselves as artists. I think we are still designers, and I also like to use the word ‘graphic design’ because it’s outdated. Nobody uses that anymore.

We see ourselves as designers that have an expanded or broader practice that bleeds into other areas. Those distinctions are helpful in a way because (although we try not to consciously think about it) it shows where we are coming from in terms of the things we read, the people we reference, the ideas we interact with… They are very much rooted or situated in design discourse, rather than the field of art, which is actually sometimes quite intimidating for me. I have a preference for the term ‘designer’ but that’s just because of what I’m more comfortable or familiar with.

Gideon To be honest, that’s still something we’re figuring out along the way. With every step we take, we hope to push the boundaries a little bit more. Maybe at one point where it’s really too much and it crumbles, then we know. At the moment, we’re still unsure of where that line is or if there is even a boundary.

A lot of times, it also depends on the nature of the project. If you’re working with someone who has got a very clear idea of what the output is like, and we feel that there is no need to add anything to it, then we don’t do anything much to it. It’s really just practically putting it together in the simplest way possible. An example will be Yu Tong’s recent book.

Gideon Yea, that one we really did nothing… I mean, it’s an invisible labour. It’s thinking about the format, and also with practical aspects – how to achieve a book just with one uncut sheet of paper, and achieving the most with the least, in terms of cost. Yu Tong is interested to develop a series of those books and we just made the grids/guidelines in the working file so that he can use it to put together future titles. That is an example where we don’t interfere as much because there is no need to.

Whereas, in other projects, the brief may be quite open-ended, like the one I was talking about previously, the booklet with 30 over pages. Here, there is reason for something unexpected.

Gideon Maybe it's not the right term.

Gideon Just adding on to what you’re mentioning, a lot of that for me comes through typesetting. Because typesetting is what directly affects the reading experience, not page layout, but just how texts sit together in lines and on a page… looking at the proportions between what is printed and what is not.

Still, on the other hand, there are also a lot of occasions where we interfere in design, and these are clearly visible.

Gideon Recently… Maybe this one is not so much visual, but in terms of idea, there was a project that we did for Shu and…

Jamie Oh, Shu, Berny and…

Gideon Yes, ‘How We Learn(t)’. For the exhibition graphics, we proposed to use stock photography. They are stock photos of blank canvases or frames in a gallery setting that is meant for photographers or artists to superimpose their work to make it look realistic / legitimate. And there was not much design actually, it’s just the title header and then the ‘key visual’. Maybe that’s the ‘worst’ we did…

Gideon I mean, in terms of something unexpected.

Jamie Most visible…

Gideon In a sense, the one that interferes the most.

Gideon There was one very obvious, literal, almost superficial connection/reason Because the exhibition was a photography showcase without photographs, the stock images literally portray that. They are…

Jamie …photography exhibitions without photographs.

Gideon This was something we realised only at the end. At first, we were considering systems of knowledge (in graphic design), because both artists were questioning systems of knowledge in the areas they were interested in. One is in orchestral music, the other one is in…

Jamie …land-mapping.

Gideon Yea. I’m not an expert in those areas, so I looked at graphic design – what is considered a system of knowledge in our field. One of them is the use of stock images (the system found in stock image libraries). They condition the way we think about reality. For example, if you search ‘success’, you get a stereotypical portrayal of that.

There were also a lot of art exhibition identities where artworks are used as ‘key visuals’ and we wanted to deliberately do the opposite of that, to use something else that is entirely different but yet at the same time, quite literally point to the work, or the idea behind the

Gideon That idea came about when we were trying to not show any of the works in the catalogue (it made sense to have blank frames that was found in the stock photographs we used). A sticker sheet seems like a solution where we can choose not to include any images in a catalogue but have it at the same time. Of course, the reader can also choose to paste the stock images instead of the artwork. I’m glad that they (the people we worked with) didn’t… kill me for it.

Jamie I think I learned to let go a bit. To not look too much at the small things. Because I’m not a very big-picture person, I like to look at small things, and I get lost in them. Sometimes, I have to step back and like: Ok this is the big picture, and we should not be so ‘yim zhim’ (particular) about the small things.

Gideon Maybe it’s certain operations of the studio that you’re quite particular about (like overseeing money)… Whereas, I tend to suggest a lot more ideas. Sometimes, a little bit too much and then we cannot keep up. We end up disappointing people because we said ‘Ok, let’s do this’ and it doesn't happen.

Jamie Oh yea, he’s too excited.

Gideon I learn about my limitations, the things that I cannot do, which are very real and apparent, and she would know. Most of the time, I’ll just pass it to her.

Jamie Pass to me?

Gideon The things that I’m not good at.

Jamie Oh, ok ok. Learn to let go of the things you cannot do?

Gideon Yea, and also learning to be more open to criticisms, if I were to talk about it in terms of our relationship working together.

Jamie But we always criticise each other.

Gideon Yea, so that’s why we’re learning.

Jamie Ah, ok.

Gideon And to be more open about it (critique). To not always assume that the way a certain thing is done is always right (or the best way to do it). Actually, the way we’re talking about this is quite abstract.

Gideon We try to make the changes that we like to see. I know this is a very big statement, but it is what it is. For the longest time, we’ve been frustrated, also with ourselves (being stuck in certain place of practice). If we want to see things happen, then we should be the ones at least trying to do it. It need not start out in a very grand manner, and can even be just getting people to share information about their own practice that helps one another build their practices. We try to make these changes one step at a time.

Temporary Press is also about that. We wanted to see our friends producing content because we are interested in those contents ourselves. And so why not publish them together? A lot of them are very simple, sometimes there is almost no graphic design involved. It’s really just putting content together in a way that makes sense, and to distribute and circulate it.

Gideon Yes, that is. We often look at books produced here. More than half are… have paper grain in the wrong direction. So why not just get people to talk about it and…

Jamie I guess we just hope that there’s more care, right?

Gideon Yea, more care… It’s not to say that we are putting a lot of care, it’s just…

Jamie To get people to share about whatever they’ve done… We learn from them as well. It benefits not only the people who come, but also us.

Gideon Yea, it’s (the intention behind this is) quite selfish in a way too.

Jamie It’s like we learn all the trade secrets. And It’s not recorded and not published anywhere, yet.

Gideon No promises, but we’re trying to make a catalogue of information where the different designers will share, for example, a paper stock that they often use. Even something like this can be a barrier for someone just starting out, like if we don’t know the prices behind certain stock. Of course, we can ask the paper merchants but if that information is more immediately accessible, it will make it a lot easier for someone move into making books with a more confidence, understanding and knowledge. Something as simple as that (was a challenge). It’s we faced in the beginning. We were looking at papers, and we were not sure how much the different papers cost…

Jamie You can’t be calling the merchant and like: I want to know the price of this, this, this…

Gideon Actually you can, they are more than helpful to help. It’s just we’re… yea.

Gideon Yea, hopefully it’s that.

Jamie Hopefully.

Gideon I can’t say that about what we’re doing, but hopefully it’s that.