Minting a Currency of His Own

As I was saying, in Uni, I was one of the first few batches in ADM. It's an art, design, and media school. I did go into Visual Communications but in the foundation year, we were taught a lot of Asian Art history. Then, the curriculum was more rigorous in a more exhaustive syllabus. I was quite excited about the visual culture in Southeast Asian history. I also was introduced to the foundation, where it trained us in conceptualization. A lot of things were in reference to art.

Long story short, I was considering some kind of a more artistic practice. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to do what I wanted to do. My prof for my FYP, Martin Constable, was sharing with me about a programme called 'Curating Lab'. He said that I should try that out based on what I'm interested in as a creative person. The experience I had and the kind of mentorship I had with Ahmad, Heman and the trainers that he had brought in, as well as my peers, and the senior batch who had been involved in training us. It had been quite an experience and I'm still very close friends to a lot of them till today. This has really informed a lot of things I understand quite foundationally about how to work with art and work around art.

I was also like a token designer there. Everyone else were from history majors or worked a little bit in the arts, or were in literary school. When I was attached to some of the institutions in the later part of the programme, that was when they were like, "Oh, you are a designer, right? Can you help us do this quarterly thing, or this catalogue thing." I was doing that, freelanced, collaborated, worked on certain things. It just was natural that it came to a point where I had to register for business to bid on ITQ. It was a very pragmatic reason then, that led to where I am today. In fact, at the place that I used to work, or was part of 'Curating Lab', the programmer there was the person who introduced me to my first staff member. I will always remember the first person I hired. It's a milestone. To a lot of people who start their agencies, it's the first thing you invest and commit to. You have to take care of that first person. I remember that moment. That's why I would say this programme really brought me to where I am.

My exposure to a curatorial programme for a few years allows me to better understand my place as a designer. That's why I'm also very careful in using the word 'curate' or dealing with design 'curatorially'. Sometimes I do understand where I stand as a designer, and how I have to tactfully work with a programmer or curator who has a certain vision. I tackle it with that kind of care and consideration from the training of how to take care of artists. But at the same time, when it comes to a certain scale of a festival or an exhibition, the interfacing is the first thing a lot of audiences encounter. I see design plays an important role in the first perception and how it should communicate. It's very different from branding other things. Art has a specific way in which it engages, or any other festivals for that matter, in terms of approach. The way that I navigate working within the arts and culture or clients within arts and culture is very much dependent on the needs of the artists. Largely because we're dealing with sometimes very sensitive topics, topics that have certain nuances or wordings that have to be laid out in a certain way. These are things that I feel that my training and some of my interests allows me to know how to navigate that nuance.

Oh, is it?

I feel like every time I work on something, I don't think about the next one. It's up to the client to decide whether my team is doing something that they are looking for. I was fortunate enough to work on projects that kickstarted with me so a lot of brain pickings were done before some of these things came about.

Technically, it's easier. It's a very pragmatic reason why it's not the status quo. Because a lot of times, ITQs or restrictions to work with the same agency all the time is something that a lot of larger institutions have. Otherwise, I do feel that it makes a lot of sense for any studio, not just ours, to work on a project for the long term. I do like, for example, the 'Pulp' series by Swell, who collaborate very closely with Shubigi. I do like other projects that I'm seeing out there that people are able to work with a specific artist or client that really builds on the project, beyond its early stages. You really see the project mature because the designer becomes wired into how something works.

Wah that's a damn difficult question.

For us, we see design in different semiotic categories. There is expressive design that is very decorative. The opposite of expressive is something more functional, so something that's a little more modern or clean. It's a very pragmatic approach. There's also an abstract approach, which is like, don't tell the thing, but hint at it with maybe a colour or some other abstract method. And the other is basically conceptual. Actually, a lot of Singapore designs are conceptual, because it's messaging. I choose green because it hints at something. I put a leaf there, so that it hints at an environmental exhibition.

These are four different approaches that I often cycle through, decide and pinpoint where I think my design should lead towards. It's very hard to say if there are any artists that specifically lead to these. You can tell that artists do deal with some of these aesthetic registers as well. I also know how design can sometimes be very artistic to a point of 'is this art?'. I am wary about it, because I am head-deep in navigating it. I do feel like I still strictly want to stay in the realm of a more commercial stance of designing. But I do enjoy art. I recall I was asked during the Curating Lab interview what my favourite artist and work were, I think I mentioned 'Play Dead' by Tan Guo Liang.

Not really, and that's a problem of mine. I feel like a lot of new work... you were listing out a few institution names and I'm like, "Those are so old."

I know, you will see the date. Sometimes I do try to, "Oh, maybe I should put this up because it was quite cool". I get the most joy when I finish something and it really works. Sometimes it ends there, not so much that I should take a photo of that again or, I should really put it into a studio set-up and have the most beautiful photograph.

Success? I don't really put the works to a certain matrix of something being more successfully done than another or whether a project is super successful. Of course, we've been involved in projects that are high capacity, or general public level type of work.

I would say a project would be doing a brand audit for a local arts institution. That was interesting to me because it is entirely invisible. What we had to do was a lot of reports and re-strategizing of their visual identity. Rather than re-doing it, we improved it, and we reworked it, and we refreshed it. The whole process and talking to all the departments in that whole institution and working with the creative team in house that is trying to figure out what is best to consolidate and simplify, but also elevate the current situation of the institution, to me, was a very appropriate type of project that brought the interest and methodologies that we have as a studio.

A brand audit is trying to review how a branding is used for a business, and to assess how its usage is, through a collation of all their existing work and see what works, what doesn't work, propose options, revise the identity, refresh or tweak it, based on what you realise would work better. Or, a renewed need that they have emphasized is missing in their current guidelines, and then revise it. The outcome would include usage guidelines, as well as brand guidelines and certain templates. That's something that we enjoy doing because it impacts a lot and it affects perceptions that I feel we are very capable of navigating based on our research-based kind of headspace.

Other projects that I don't feel are in the category of what we do and we deem as successful are things that we really enjoy – collaborations with independent curators and artists that approached us to help them do personal projects. These are things that are interesting for us to devise because we like to engage projects outside of the museum complex. You do see alternative spaces, ways of working, collaboration in ways where you would never really get to experience if it's a very professional ground of navigating output. As someone who organises and works within the community, I feel this is my contribution and commitment as someone who designs. I can design with the arts because I am part of it as a creative person, as an audience person. That's why I am doing what I'm doing.

If anything, all I can deal with is my own health and my own energy to do what I'm doing. I rather think about the future more in terms of what I can do and what my capacity is. It's quite easy to decide when the time comes.

Why do you find it good? Just curious!

Firstly, it's good that you caught 'now and forever' being a part of Currency. It is about timelessness and also at the same time about the 'now'. If you think about it, 'currency' technically means that too. What keeps things going means you're good now and also what's next. It's a vicious loop of the tagline and the name of the studio being the same thing. It's also super cheesy, because 'now and forever' is always about love and romance. I like it as a tagline because taglines always sound like that.

Yeah! It's a romantic term. I remember it was a beer session with my designers and we were laughing at the idea of using it as a tagline. We wanted to change it every year, but we didn't.

Yeah, we got lazy, or we didn't update.

Yea, okay, to the question of how do we deal with what is good, and how do we think about timelessness... I think that's a very good question because I do engage in aesthetic dialogue, or critical conversations about post internet, ugly design, weird design, modernism coming back... I feel every designer who comes in has a point of view.

Aesthetics, in general, is a topic that I've always been drawn to at large. That is the reason why I do what I'm doing. That's also the approach of how I navigate the control over how I consider what strategy works and how to be part of content, or be navigating around it or just articulating the objective... different ways in which it can manifest visually. These are things that come from certain histories, nostalgias, memories. Even the verbal 'now and forever' recalls a certain song or idea. These are brand strategies that we navigate and understand and I feel that's a strength of ours.

I do like to work with designers who are able to articulate themselves very well, who are able to explain complicated things about design, and are able to be quite pointed in how something can work or not work. Vocabulary is the tool to talk about good design, because it's relational, or it relates to how someone perceives it. Good is relative, as we all realise now, so I don't have an answer for what is good design. I don't have an answer for what is timeless. But I can tell you at a certain point, something feels timeless or so during that time, because it is that moment of who you're talking to, and what you're looking as in the future or in the past, and therefore it's considered timeless.

It's not about challenging the brief. It's not about counter-proposing. It's not about trying to one up being able to explain something until people don't understand. Actually, I'm using very easy words. I'm also trying to explain things such that people can understand. It's about establishing vocabularies. It's about visual literacy in ways where, how do you make someone understand what you're trying to say that they can empathise, or are familiar with, or can understand based on their background. These are ways in which good design can then be as a result.

The control is of the articulating person, and the person who's accepting it. If the back and forth isn't strong, you are ending up with something that you cannot feel comfortable with because you just can't navigate it. To me, it's a very frustrating moment when you're trying to push something through. The control is, of course, the expert in the room, which is the designer, to say that this is good design. Whether or not the client agrees with you is how you navigate that, and how the designer can also challenge someone's point of view about whether or not something is good or better... Is the client's idea better than yours? Is your idea better? It's how you talk about it that matters. I'm not really answering the question per se, about what good design is, but I feel that it is really a very difficult thing to navigate. A very easy answer to say, which is, there's no clear good design.

I know it's a wrong way of thinking about the root word of 'design', since you were telling me about the root word of 'curate', right?

I came up with it but I don't even think it’s true. A sign is something which you can interpret in a lot of ways in semiotics. But you are ‘de-signing’ something, meaning that you are trying to put a very clear message to something that has many meanings. That is what design is. I am also reminded by the word ‘design’ but to me, I am ‘de-signing’ it. I am not making it a very abstract, subjective thing. I’m making it a very pointed message. That gesture, movement or that course or journey into trying to make something clear is interesting to me. Good design is difficult to sometimes pinpoint. It’s so subjective. If I’m a reader and I’m not an aesthetic person, I may hate a specific design approach and I won’t be a fan of that design. It’s a day in, day out of how I navigate how people think.

But you see when you say it like that, I also know what your aesthetic is. You know what I mean? Versus when I talk to some people who are like… acid graphics, gradients, neon! It’s very clear, it’s visceral in a different way. It’s not about knowing, seeing and then you can feel it. Some people just need to be stabbed with it, or they just need to be compelled intellectually, or confused a bit. Everyone has a certain taste of design that hits them in a certain way and they collect that type of thing... and design should be for example, very quiet or muted, or it could be the direct opposite.

What I like about it is that I do meet many people who have a very clear idea of what they like. It’s very exciting to know that it’s really, very diverse. The taste and preference of audiences… It's so interesting to hear them out and see what they buy in a book fair, look at how they come up with their banners, and students come up with works in their show. It’s interesting to learn that it’s a continuous feeding and iteration of trends, histories, more trends… coming back… disappearing. It’s interesting to observe and see.

Then we can end up arguing, but maybe not today.

Can describe, can describe.

Wah, very cheam ah, the questions… Okay, firstly, these plants are quite easy. They are in the Araceae family. They are all aroids, about 70% to 80% of them are. For those who are also in the plant game, they are epiphytic, they don’t really need a lot of care, you can don’t water them for a while and they still are quite perky. I do like specific, weird plants. I was just sharing with you when you walked in, what weird plant is in front of us right now. I do like specific, uncommon, often palmate leaves, often non-variegated, ruffly, or quite normal but when you look closer, is a bit not normal. What you see in the studio is a reflection of my own aesthetics and taste, but also the way I like to vary it from corner to corner.

I used to be at Midview CIty, somewhere near Upper Thomson Road. A neighbouring creative studio gifted me dieffenbachia, I think, or Chinese evergreen… I can’t remember. It was easy to care for and it sparked my interest in plants. It also helped that Upper Thomson Road is very close to Far East Flora and a few other plant stores that you always drive by on the way home, so it was quite an easy curve to assemble so many plants. It was slightly before Covid and I was already amassing a small collection of plants. It exploded during Covid when I had more time to care for them.

How I navigate plants and how I navigate the studio… maybe what’s similar is that you need to understand time, you need to have that patience, not only for the plants to grow and but also to know what kind of support is needed for the growth. If they don’t like the place that I put it in, or I overwatered it that one time and it doesn’t work for that plant and it doesn’t recover or survive from the flooding at that point, then it won’t grow well or it will wither very quickly. It’s not me seeking out very specific types of people or plants. Everyone wants to be able to work with each other well. If you communicate well, if we know how to navigate each other, I feel that this works.

I have had a lot of dialogue sessions with my team, at least in the past one or two years, and I feel that’s very useful in terms of daily reminders about what we care for, what we would want to sort out. The team is the most important to me on a day to day basis, than the work that we do. The team’s motivation, their interest, welfare and headspace is something that I quietly focus on, watch and be sensitised to. But there’s only so much I can do as a boss. We all know about keeping a professional relationship with your team. It is a very difficult thing but I would like to say that I am invested in trying to ensure that they feel comfortable, and that they are not becoming yes-man or they are not losing control over a department of work that they are provided to do, that they have grounds to develop, grow, promote and navigate new things after a couple of year. I feel like I’m starting to be more articulate to them about all these possibilities.

I do learn the hard way early in the years. I’ve grown to learn how to reject, commit to, or navigate difficult situations, know when to be silent, when to say more, when to push a bit harder, when to stand down. All these are being people-oriented, training myself to learn to be more disciplined in how I onboard tasks and develop things. I do like to see myself continue to be at bay with my emotions, know when it is needed to be shown, to stand back and to listen, or to let them sometimes even fail and learn through the failure. It’s hard to say that because sometimes you can’t afford to fail. There’s that stance and anxiety as a business owner to feel like you need to protect them so that you also protect the business.

Having talked to a lot of peers, it’s one of the most difficult things. A lot of us come into design not to work with people. A lot of people really cannot work with people in general, so let alone run something, let alone be a creative running something with other creatives. It’s tough. I would say that I am always reworking and rejuvenating the way that I engage people.

Why you never say plants? Animal ah…

It’s so random! Okay, um... I like frogs. I just like frogs. When I was young, I just liked frogs. I had a large collection of toy frogs. My aunt who used to know that I collect frogs would give me frogs from Australia when they come back from travelling. I was known to like frogs. Let me think whether frogs do inform what I am, why I am and who I am today. They change colour depending on the environment.

Yea, they do have a few life cycle changes. But everyone does…

Oh yea… I have a kind of like… Some people say, “Are you from theatre?”. I’m not… They do adapt and are very sensitive to smoke and everything.

Sensitivity… Yea maybe to do with being able to feel and sense, sure.

Oh ya… And frogs are rather endangered, especially when the environment is torn down and their habitat is lost. It’s one of the first few animals that will probably get extinct. They are also in many crazy colours. These colours also warn predators about poison that they have. They don’t taste very well, I would think. You may die if you eat me up, so…

Night of dinner… The other two sound like NS, army so-called ‘cohesion’.

We do have dialogue days quite a bit, so because of that I feel we don’t really do a lot of like, “Let's dedicate lull periods. Let's go and fly some kites.” We constantly strike a social relationship. We sometimes have quite long lunches…

Dedicate one day, no work, talk about anything, everything, all our issues, all our good things.

Kind of… It’s just something that we devised for a couple of years already. ‘Cause I realise… it’s two-way, they need a channel to tell me how they feel about certain work-related or welfare things. Just a casual day where they get a full, nuanced answer, discuss possibilities, record it down and then change protocol. Or, on my side, maybe I note down certain pain points about work day-to-day. I don’t raise it up and make an issue. I say it many weeks later during the dialogue session so that it’s a very comfortable and good headspace to do it. I would treat them the breakfast or dinner… It’s a fun day and I look forward to it. Actually we are having one tomorrow. I’m trying to start where they all get to share something about themselves.

It’s weird for me to do because as I said, I’m not a person who learned to do things like that. I’m not trained to be working with people, I’m trained to connect vector lines. It’s a very different skillset that I have to grow my shape into that mould, because I have to work with people. I have to understand them, and they have to understand me. If the day-to-day is not clear, then how are we gonna perform in general?

The problem of graphic design is that it’s so detail-oriented. A lot of emotional maturity has to be present and a good relationship has to be struck, in order to navigate something so obsessive like graphic design. It’s me trying to toggle and navigate realistically my obsession in graphic, and that kind of frequency and obsession in relation to collaborators and team members, who navigate in the same kind of crazy obsession. It’s as much of control as knowing when to let go of certain things, that strikes a certain balance for me.

I don’t have to run something. My personality is not ‘I want to have full control over everything’. I don’t. Why I set certain methods or approaches, and why I like workflow is because I am quite afraid of not having a certain structure. Not so much ‘afraid’, but more of I don't think it will work without a structure.

I have been unfortunate enough to have friends who introduce us to new fields that I don’t fully have the experience in, and friends who gladly teach in order for us to have new fields to enter. This kind of cross-pollination and fields informing each other, and me contributing to them as friends-who-also-run-businesses type of relationships to me is always nice to have and to retain and inculcate as a safe place to share.

Sometimes when you run a business, there’s only so much you can share within your day-to-day because there’s nothing above you to define what you do. Not everyone can understand what you do. It’s always very valuable and I want to have more peers and people in the industry to have comfortable conversations. I have some of that today and I really treasure and cherish those relationships. That’s the main thing I look forward to because it is tough on top. Every step has to be taken carefully, every decision I make hinges on my headspace. The only thing I will look forward to is really more wisdom from the scene and friends.