Looking Inwards and Out

Arthur Maybe I can take the one from the client side of things. Generally, I feel that the Singapore clients are actually quite progressive. A lot of people say, oh, Singapore is boring and people are not, you know, inventive or enterprising, and it is so not true. I remember quite well during the COVID period where everybody was shutting down, but people were coming through our doors, and they're still doing amazing stuff. And it blows my mind that there's so many people based in Singapore, who are constantly looking up ideas, and taking them forward. So that is quite a delightful thing to sit and listen to - a prospective partner walking in to talk about what they're thinking. It's so encouraging, because the ground movement is so healthy.

Yah-Leng When we first came back, we probably wouldn't say that. We were not so ingrained. But I think over the past 10 years, there has been a huge shift in mindset and acceptance, or really knowledge or awareness about design. It's important, branding in general, in relation to businesses. This new generation of business owners in the second generation, the Millennials, and Gen Zs, they are a different breed. And they are very on top of what's happening, the trend, the aesthetics.

They have a very progressive mindset. They will do things differently from their parents. And so that really is quite inspiring. Some people come into our office and they are very young folks with really very interesting business ideas. It's really interesting and quite inspiring, so much so that you also want to work with them. There are a lot of people like that. As I said, during COVID, there were tons of people who were doing things, preparing things to be completed, so that they can launch either during COVID or after. So yeah, I think it's a very interesting time at this point. Singapore is not boring at all.

Arthur I guess if we are sharing a brand, it will have to be public knowledge. So mostly recent launches.

Yah-Leng The only one we can probably share now is a bouldering gym that we are actually launching next week. It's founded by a young couple. They were very young. Maybe it surprised everyone, like “huh, so young”. But age doesn't define what you do. I think it's even more inspiring. So they've been working hard to establish this gym and it's going to be at the Esplanade. I think it's going to be one of the first ones in the CBD area.

Arthur Yeah, after COVID.

Yah-Leng They're inspiring because they are young business entrepreneurs and we worked together really well. They understand design. They get it. So there's a lot less pain points. When they latch on to an idea, they get it and they will go with it. And that's very helpful for our project to evolve because that will help the brand.

Arthur The design studio is half of the bridge, right? So the other half of the bridge has to come from the client partner side. For projects and founders, besides being young, enterprising, there is also tremendous grit, because it's not an easy thing to pull off. You have to find the resources to make things happen. And also, the thing that I admire a lot about them, as with a lot of the clients, is the courage. Because it is one thing to say, “I have an idea”, and it is another thing to see it come to life. So they had the courage to stand by an idea and the courage to push through, the courage to overcome obstacles. And as with any other project, there will always be naysayers, there will always be people saying, "why do you have to do this?" But to overcome all of those sorts of friction and resistance is quite admirable. And that is the other half of the bridge. So together the two can produce stuff that, you know, hopefully, is bringing new experiences to the consumer.

Yah-Leng Yeah, our project is as good as the client, is what we always say.

Arthur We still agree that six to eight is the best.

Yah-Leng Not that I don't appreciate a larger team, but when it comes to being a bit more effective in delivering and executing your ideas, six to eight is a great number, because it is more intimate, and everyone's a bit tighter in the communications. There's no intermediary, miscommunication or something else. I like that tightness in that size. Everyone feels like they are in the same team, and not like a few different teams. So I think that's something I prefer. But of course, sometimes you can't help it. When you've got a lot of projects on hand, you need a larger team. But yeah, it's a dilemma.

Arthur Partly this is because of Yah-Leng's working style. She's very hands-on and accessible. The studio has no hierarchy – that's something that is very important to us. So in order to work closely with designers, having a bigger team just makes it difficult. A six to eight man team would be quite good for the way we work.

Yah-Leng Obviously Arthur heads up business strategy and planning. I lead the creative part of the department, but then in the team there are designers and there are technologists, and people are more savvy in social media. Everyone still has that singular base of having some kind of design background, even the copywriters and all that. I think everyone has also learned to develop different skills as they progress through the journey with Foreign Policy, whether it's managing a project, managing the clients, being forced to learn a new set of skills, new technology, new software.

Arthur We have a podcast called Showing Up. And one of the earlier episodes was an episode with Chris Lee of Asylum. And he basically shared that oftentimes, you just have to figure things out. And I think that it's another fundamental truth in our studio: it's not so much of what you learn in school or in a formal setting, you have to learn everything there and bring it into the workspace. And I'll say maybe what we learn in the formal environment is maybe like 20%, or even 10%. The other 80 to 90% is really self-learnt, self-driven, or explore or figure it out. I think that is a really critical, super critical element, because it's part of growth. And we can't expect people to spoon feed us. For someone to be able to embrace that not only contributes to his or her individual growth and personality, but to the studio's growth. So it's not so much of growth required by some system, but as a necessary life skill.

Yah-Leng Recently, we were designing the floor plan for some sort of outdoor installation. And the constraint is that there's a very tight deadline and we're working with some other partners. All the team were working using Adobe Illustrator, trying to figure out the dimensions and the distance and the size and perspective. And then I was like, “guys why don't you use SketchUp? You can learn it in like 30 minutes!” Okay, two hours, whatever. (laughs) So the tech team did it - they actually went to learn it. And hey, one or two of them actually became experts in that. And you know, that really sped up our workflow. It was easier to explain to the client where things are, how big the sizes and the dimensions are. I mean, these are things that are important to embrace and to learn on the go, just like Arthur said. That's just one example.

Arthur And oftentimes, even friends and peers that we know in the industry, many of them do not have formal training in whatever things that they ultimately became really good at. It was really self-initiated – they learnt, they figured it out, and then eventually became really good at it. I think it is like a holy grail, to embrace that. And embracing that can create wonders.

Yah-Leng That's also part of the DNA of Foreign Policy. In a way, we're always trying to find ways to do things better. So there was once – I just wanted to share, I'm not sure Arthur knows – someone in the team commented that we are always trying to find the best communication tools or project management tools for the studio. And they were sometimes quite shocked when we were working with someone else, and they were still using Excel spreadsheets to do stuff when there are other sets of tools. So that team member expressed gratitude that we are able to be quite open-minded about trying out new softwares or apps to help our workflow.

Arthur I think there are primarily two parts to making this sort of project work. One, most of the ideas came from Yah-Leng. So she usually says, okay, I have this idea, we need to do it. So that is important. The second part that I felt is really important is the team at Foreign Policy. The thing is, whatever projects that we do are over and above the daily crunch. There's never once a complaint, or projects taken on half-heartedly. Most of the time, the team will embrace it, and push through. And this just means more work over and above the daily to-do-list, that they have to clear. And I think that's an important part of the culture where, when there's a good idea, people rally around it, and then somehow, we'll figure it out and make it work.

Yah-Leng I think the genesis of why we are doing it is also because we like the social part of it. We like to share, we like the social part of meeting similar minds in the design world at the beginning. And then eventually, when we were doing the podcast, we decided that we don't want to just focus on designers. We've been working with our business partners, or what we call partners or clients, and there are so many of them who are so inspiring. We want their voices to be heard. And of course, beyond our clients, there are businesses that we truly think are doing amazing work and impacting our little economy.

"Showing Up" is not just for designers, but also for entrepreneurs who are actually making an impact that we wanted to chat with. So I know that in the beginning people felt like, “huh, you're not doing design?” They were a bit unsure, but I guess we just pushed on. Now we're in the second season, and I think it's pretty okay. We just have to reach out or push it out more to the non-design world. There's a lot of things to share from the business side of things. And I hope that designers can also be interested in that role as well. Because as brand designers, we need to be very keenly aware of what the business people, our clients, are thinking about and what their struggles might be. And that brings us together, aligns us, and that's beyond design stuff. So it's about personal growth, you know?

Arthur Was it an easy decision? I guess it came naturally. I didn't think too much about it. It just came naturally and it's almost as a matter of fact.

Arthur As in any partnership is not gonna be always a bed of roses. But we are also quite careful not to let any personal sort of matter spill into the work, where we can. Ideally, it should be resolved quickly, and then and then move along, I guess.

Yah-Leng Without Arthur, there are things I cannot do, for sure. I mean, maybe on the outside it seems like I did everything, but not at all. Just a few days ago, there were things that I needed his help, without which it cannot move along. I'm relying on him in a very big way. It's good to have different skill sets. There are maybe very complementary skill sets in a partnership. Of course I admire Chris Lee, or Kelley Cheng, who can do everything. Really. But I feel like I'm not that kind, you know? And so, I'm just blessed to have Arthur, who is actually very good at those things. Very, very good. And he's the best negotiator. So yeah, there's no Foreign Policy without Arthur.

Yah-Leng Arthur meditates. I don't.

Yah-Leng He's been absorbed in his reading machine - a Kobo. I don't have one. I prefer physical books.

Yah-Leng He's been ferociously reading. I think he's checking off all the books, like 100 books. So I think that has been his personal time already for the past two years.

Arthur Quite a lot. One that I'm currently reading, well actually not reading - since it’s an audiobook - is "The Surrender Experiment". I just started this morning, about five chapters in. It's actually quite interesting. It talks about the notion that we all think we have a lot of control, and we want to control a lot of outcomes, such as, I wish this will happen, I hope that will happen, I hope it doesn't rain. But the truth is, you know, the world is moving ahead. And it's driven by a lot of forces, whether it's molecular or cellular, or something quite seismic. They will move on, with or without your preferences and wishes. So part of the notion about the surrender experiment talks about the importance of understanding that oftentimes, we have little or no control. And the second thing is, we always have someone talking in our head. It's important to take the seat of consciousness to understand this talking head - sometimes people call it a roommate - and what exactly they are saying. Being aware of that is also quite important.

Arthur Yes, there was this analogy that was shared with us. When eagles are flying, the wind could be very strong. You could either fight the wind, or you ride the wind.

Yah-Leng laughs Ah, the next trend? I personally am quite huge on street and Japanese cult brands. I feel like the oversized look is still gonna stay. But the 90s look is kind of creeping in, so it will be interesting to see how that's going to merge with the current trend. I also think there'll be a lot more colours. Arthur and I always buy the same colours – maybe blue, maybe some greens. Last year, there was this thing about a shade of blue, which is actually our Foreign Policy blue. So we have our FP hat, which you can buy on our website.

We're also working on something currently, which is sort of apparel-related. Hopefully I can share it soon. But it's something that is also very us and part of our DNA. I don't think I can predict a fashion trend, we just wear what I think suits us.

Yah-Leng I mean, it influences my design as well. Sometimes the colours that I use are very much from the fashion shows. Or a capsule collection or some kind of clothes that I like. It might not be this current season, it could be the past seasons. It's always influenced by fashion - I will always say that.

Yah-Leng Maybe photography as well. Since I was young, it's influenced by my dad, who recently passed. Image making has always been very much part of me. That's how I see things. So, you know, imagery is always essential in what we do, and it definitely plays a part in design.

Arthur I guess next week has a few things. One is the launch of the bouldering gym at the Esplanade. We really would like to see it launched in a successful and meaningful way. So that's important. Second thing I guess is a collaboration project that we are currently in conversation about which I need to sort out by next week. So that one is also quite important.

Yah-Leng For me, trying to chase my deadlines, which are endless. I need to get some stuff ready before I jet off to Italy in two weeks. Oh, that's in the midst of trying to get our new house sorted out. We are in the middle of renovation of a new house and literally I'm behind in buying some of the furnishing and stuff. Arthur has kindly organised the movers and they're coming in a month. So then that begs the question of organising stuff to be packed, right? So that's essentially - I have no time for it. But then, there are a lot of other things that I'm trying to do. We have an exhibition coming up in either December or January next year, which I have to do some organisation for. Because the first part of the exhibition is going to happen in the first week of October, I need to be able to collate stuff and send it to them before I leave for Italy, and then I need to gather information, and blah, blah, blah.

Yah-Leng It's exciting but then I need to do it, right. I have a few other things that I need to finish. I think projects as well.

Yah-Leng I created a bunch of to-dos for my Italy trip. I'm gonna be working there as well.

Yah-Leng Vacation is tough. After I come back, we're going on a studio trip to Bangkok. That's exciting as well as the entire studio is going to Bangkok for the whole week. Everyone's excited because we've not been out for a while and then COVID just kept everyone in as well.

Arthur You too. Thank you so much Michelle.